Transcription:
Ramez: In 2019, for the first time, food service sales in North America exceeded retail sales. Food service or out-of-home sales surpassed retail sales. The biggest question is when will food service sales or out-of-home sales exceed retail sales in our part of the world? Well, stay tuned because that day will eventually come, and we are experiencing some of the best opportunities during this time of doing business, with plenty more opportunities to come.
Ramez: Today, I have the privilege of having with me Ayman Arnous. How are you, Ayman?
Ayman: I’m good, thank you.
Ramez: Ayman is currently the general manager for food services at Almarai Pro, correct?
Ayman: That’s correct.
Ramez: Wonderful. So, I’ve known Ayman for almost 15 years now, and maybe the story goes, why don’t you just share a little bit about how we got to know each other?
Ayman: And how I have reached where I am today? Perfect. First and foremost, thank you for having me today. I’m really excited to discuss a few business topics with you. Over the last five years, I’ve been following you, tracking your progress, and I must say, great evolution, Ramez. This absolutely comes with great effort.
Ramez: Well, that is quickly about how we met. Ayman and I first met in Biddeford back in 2009. At that time, I was a key account executive handling a few accounts with Biddeford. We had the chance to really learn the basics of selling. I can say, not so well-developed at that time, but I can say I used to be a master in sales.
Ramez: However, we were trying to learn the basics, and I still remember the first question I asked you when I first told you. Ayman, I have this client who always asks me for a discount, and I really don’t want to lose him. What can I do about this? This is where we started the discussion of added value selling and how to really understand the customer and advance in your proposal.
Ayman: Mainly, that’s how we started, and it’s really astonishing to see, over a decade later, where we are now, whether it be yourself or my progress in my career as well as in the food service industry.
Ramez: Amazing. Thanks a lot for this. I sincerely have that as a blank spot—I don’t remember having that conversation.
Ayman: I’m sure you do better than I. Wonderful. So, from Biddeford in 2009, you’ve worked within the food service industry and then reached where you are today. If you were to pinpoint one thing that has been responsible for your growth and success as a food service professional, what would it be?
Ayman: I look at food service as a business. In this region, whether we like it or not, there is no one answer to the question, but there are plenty of reasons and areas that make a food service professional successful, especially in their career. One and foremost is the people. Today, food service, contrary to retail, is not about branding.
Ayman: It’s not about visibility. It’s about the ability to really connect with people, to really sell, understand the business, and connect and wire for the future. It’s about your commitment to understanding short-term objectives and really building the right focus to win in the long term. Also, in food service, what I’ve realized is that it’s about the technology, the investment, the speed to market, and the hard work that you and the team can do in order to understand business needs as well as to understand how to win overall in the market.
Ramez: Right? You said a whole bunch of things. The one thing that stuck with me is connecting with your client. From a food service perspective, when you say connecting with the client, can you elaborate a little more? Connecting in what way, Ayman? Let’s say I’m an F&B manager, a chef, or an owner of a restaurant or chain, for that matter.
Ayman: Yeah, very good question. You have to really break it down into two: whether you know the person or know the business and already have a solid relationship with the customer, or you’ve just recently been advised to meet a new prospect and really approach them through a business proposal or a potential business for the future.
Ayman: Let’s start with the second one. Today, when you have the ability to really propose and introduce yourself, you have to be, first of all, the right ambassador for yourself and for your company. People in this channel and in this business like to really meet smart, high-potential individuals who can not only help them in the selling journey but also uncover a lot of potential that might not have been discussed or even thought of.
Ayman: That’s why, when you meet a new prospect, you must show your ability as a person, build on likability, and then try to hook the customer with the personal skills you have. This way, when you propose a business discussion, the prospect will really want to work with you. They might say, “I really liked that sales executive or that sales manager, and I’m going to build a relationship with him.”
Ayman: This is only the start. Then comes the commercial acumen—the ability to take a step back and really understand the prospect’s business. What do they do? What are their plans? What do they want to achieve by the end of the day, by the end of the year, or in the long run? All of this will help you propose the right commercial portfolio skills to help you win and advance your proposal with such a prospect.
Ramez: Amazing. I think you said it all—I couldn’t stop you because you were just on a roll. You talked about commercial acumen. So, what’s in it for the other person? Today, we know that most outlets or businesses start mainly because they want to bring something unique to the market.
Ramez: They are keen to differentiate. They are passionate about their recipes, their art, their craft. In a way, they are fulfilling a need in the market. And today, we know, especially in this part of the world, Saudi Arabia is a recent entrant into this trend. After the pandemic, we’ve seen research showing that one in every two Saudis is choosing to eat healthier meals, right?
Ramez: One in every two. If you go back just five or ten years, that was unheard of. Back in 2009, when you started in the food service industry, that was the total exception, as opposed to today, where it’s 50%. Maybe the market in the UAE is a little more multicultural.
Ramez: So, the health trend was something that was already in place, but today it is becoming more prominent. People start their business ideas to offer something to the market, to be different, and to fulfill a demand. At the end of the day, they want to drive value.
Ramez: They want to offer the client the right menu, the right offering, so they can achieve their goals, help the client achieve their health consciousness, and then achieve their profitable goals in the process. I’m going to pause us here for a second. The first step is understanding the objective of the prospect or enterprise that you’re dealing with.
Ayman: Thank you for that comment. And about the latest trend in Saudi Arabia choosing the healthiest option—actually, this is not just a regional trend; it’s a global trend. It’s not only about choosing healthy options; the variety of choices today is helping the consumer or the person who wants to dine out prioritize based on those options.
Ayman: What is the healthiest option, or what is the healthiest menu that you would like to see from an operator? That, by itself, creates a great opportunity for a lot of operators in KSA and the GCC to invest in that segment. This segment is growing organically as well. Today, what we see from operators is that the tendency to change menus is really increasing, which creates more variety for consumers. That, by all means, also creates great opportunities for more products in the near future, as well as more advanced healthy products proposed by companies and suppliers to operators.
Ramez: Absolutely. And one of the trends on the rise is the increase in healthy options. Deliveries are rising; eating on the go is increasing, and the percentage of deliveries has risen drastically because of COVID. But even now, after the pandemic, it’s still rising. People are enjoying that.
Ramez: And I’d add something interesting—the rise of vegetarianism. Maybe not everyone is going to eat only vegetables, but people are realizing the impact of eating meat on the environment. So, people are choosing to slow down their meat intake to be more conscious of the environment, you know?
Ramez: Is this something that you’re seeing in the market?
Ayman: Absolutely, absolutely. The protein segment is still high. However, when we noticed the fast growth of, let’s say, vegetarian options and healthier seafood, we also understood that there’s a shift in consumer choices today. They are being wiser, especially when selecting operators. Today, honestly speaking, Ramez, visibility also plays a big part in awareness.
Ayman: The more visibility of the menus, the more aggregator apps, everything is helping consumers to make decisions quickly. If we compare it to ten or fifteen years ago, we didn’t have the option to really understand what an operator was offering in terms of a menu. Today, everything is at the click of a button.
Ayman: You can have full visibility, and that by itself increases the choices and creates the right visibility for better and wiser decisions when it comes to dining out. Building on that, I think operators today might say, “Well, my menu has always been my menu. Why do I need to change?” Well, if you don’t change, and your competitors are evolving their offerings to meet the current demand of consumers, where will you be? You know, I think today, all food service operators, when we talk about selling, we are selling ingredients, selling a product versus selling a concept versus selling a menu. We look at trends, implications, and opportunities.
Ayman: What are the trends? We spoke about the health trend. The implication of this health trend is that if you don’t have anything healthy on your menu, well, you could be left out and become a dinosaur. The opportunity is, “Hey, let me help you evolve the menu. Let me help you evolve what you have.”
Ayman: And together, we can grow. So, this is what you started by saying, Ramez: it’s about understanding the industry, understanding the operator, and using your know-how and business acumen to really come and add value to the operator.
Ramez: Absolutely, absolutely.
Ramez: Wonderful. Let’s look at managing a food service business, the food service team. When you look at your current role, and maybe we can generalize certain things, what have been or still are the challenges you see in the way food service needs to be approached in this market?
Ayman: Yeah, very important question, Ramez. I believe managing food service for this region started approximately 20 years ago. And unfortunately, whether we like it or not, the way this business was approached was by bringing in good people from retail to create a food service business. They thought, “Okay, let those people come, and they will help us.”
Ayman: Not only that, but the approach also started by using food service as a dumping ground for products that couldn’t be sold in the market. This, by itself, created an environment of incompetent employees working in food service that affected this business for almost ten years, especially in terms of pricing.
Ayman: If you don’t know how to sell and you’re using a dumping strategy, you’re taking away all the value. Then, the products lose value, and the power shifts back to the operator. You become a facilitator only, or what we call an order taker, instead of an order maker. What I’ve seen in this region is that we’ve witnessed a lot of evolution when it comes to managing food service.
Ayman: One of the challenges I personally faced, Ramez, is that the company decided to create a food service strategy. They hired the best-in-class manager to manage the business. And then suddenly, the expectations started rising, but the current reality in terms of structure and management didn’t change.
Ayman: I’m not expecting a manager to come in with a magic wand to create all this added value selling, as well as the B2B approach, to win over the next five years as a solo approach. It’s a complete transformation.
Ramez: Absolutely, absolutely.
Ayman: It’s a cultural transformation in how we used to sell and how we need to sell.
Ramez: Exactly, exactly. And that’s why one of my famous statements, Ramez, is that you win by design. You win by design in food service because the moment you embed the right structure, the moment you hire the right people—the competent people in selling, as well as those who have the behavioral element of prospecting, meeting, and the hunting abilities to understand businesses and add value to those businesses.
Ayman: And then the training comes as a second weapon in your arsenal to really focus on your team. All of this will help you to really win by design by creating the right structure. But that’s not all. There’s also the element of development, the human element of how to smartly approach the market in a more strategic way.
Ayman: This will require patience, time, and a lot of effort from both the organization and the leaders.
Ramez: Amazing. I’m just going to build on some key elements you spoke about and maybe go back to the drawing board. What you said is music to my ears, right?
Ramez: Understanding the requirements, we want to find better individuals who are able to engage with clients, do the prospecting, present, add value, and do the analysis. And sometimes—not just sometimes, especially in the market where there is a war on talent, you know what I mean?
Ramez: There is a war on talent where you don’t find a lot of these individuals. Right? So, I’m going to throw it back at you. Okay, Ayman, you know and I know it’s not easy to find these people, right? So, in the absence of such talent, what have you done that is working for you, or what can you recommend?
Ayman: I know we are still in the process. You know, we never reach the finish line—we are always evolving and driving. But what are some things you can share with our audience that they can do in case they cannot find the best people?
Ayman: That’s right. Definitely, there is a scarcity in the market when it comes to attracting professionals.
Ayman: In B2B, but again, we cannot pause there and say, “This is it,” and wait until we have the talent to proceed in the business. This brings us to the second key element in developing and managing food service, which is training. The human element is the ability for you as a leader to invest your time, your knowledge, and to connect with professionals in the marketplace and industry to help you design the right materials and training.
Ayman: Packages that can help the team not only learn the basics but also touch on the behavioral elements of the approach—how to win in the marketplace, how to approach a customer. What’s in it for me today as a salesperson in food service? What’s the purpose that drives potential and improvement? In the long run, the moment we really invest in that area over time.
Ayman: And we have to be patient as leaders because this takes time. So many people and leaders want fast results. But guess what? It will take time. With fast results, you will suffer. Sometimes results will be impacted. However, if you believe in that journey and have a solid long-term vision for your organization and your people, you must invest enough time for your team to be on different frequencies and have the right materials and training so that they can expand and explore possibilities while they are learning.
Ramez: What I love about what you’re saying, Ayman, is that it’s not about waiting for the perfect conditions—it’s about creating them. I remember during the pandemic in 2020, you personally—first of all, what I love about you is that you’re hungry for knowledge. You said five years ago you started following me.
Ramez: Maybe it was because I had started putting more content online. It’s great—we’ve stayed in touch and had these conversations. And I would say that during the pandemic, you invested in a program. You sat with 20 other sales leaders, remember? From sales confusion to sales certainty, that was the topic of a course we created for sales leaders and people who manage teams.
Ramez: You were like, “Yeah, I’m in,” without even thinking twice about it. For those listening to this program, I’d say you have a big responsibility as a leader of your team to model the way. There’s a saying that the speed of the team is determined by the speed of its leader.
Ramez: And you, as a leader, have grown and evolved. How did you find out about these food service opportunities? You’re always reading, you’re always part of networking events, rubbing shoulders with people at your level, and learning. I believe today, food service will not happen.
Ramez: You make food service happen—you take the bull by the horns, and you really plow that fertile ground because you spend a little bit of time getting better. The outcome is just unlimited. Growth in food service will by far exceed growth in retail. I mean, if you look at the businesses that are currently investing in and developing their food services, they are achieving much higher growth rates.
Ramez: Maybe the volume isn’t there yet, but the volume will eventually catch up. And it all started because you decided to learn, you decided to evolve. And guess what? You’re taking everyone with you. Now you are one, and the team is many. The key now is how you put systems and processes in place. That’s where the structured approach, training, and development come into play and drive the organization.
Ramez: That was really insightful. I think our audience would really enjoy this bit of information.
Ayman: And to build on this point again, Ramez, you said something interesting about food service growth surpassing retail growth. In fact, today, when we compare the growth in operator counts to five years ago, we’re talking about a 38% increase in total count.
Ayman: When we look at the UAE, for example, we’re talking about a 25% increase in total count. That tells you a lot. Unfortunately, the pandemic slowed the growth of food service. However, what’s interesting was the ability to bounce back quickly. We were still in the pandemic, but with the easing of restrictions.
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Ayman:** Now we see a very nice and positive movement in food service again. We see high traffic in restaurants, and this channel is really growing faster than retail. Also, what’s really interesting is that the future is promising despite all the challenges. The ability to embed creativity in this channel is one of the core elements for success.
Ramez: Yeah, creativity and finding opportunities based on change in the market. Okay, Ayman, I know being in the current environment, we’re seeing some very volatile—I’m going to say sudden—changes in the current world economic condition, from shortages of supplies to shortages in delivering products and services, supply chain difficulties.
Ramez: How is all this impacting food service in particular, from your perspective?
Ayman: Yeah, very, very important question, Ramez. If we want to zoom out a little to define the channel, food service has always been a price-sensitive segment, especially because it’s very dynamic and because of operator expectations, especially when it comes to price.
Ayman: Now, what’s happening with all the challenges you mentioned, Ramez, is that the cost input to run the operation is really increasing drastically, which is also affecting the ability to keep prices as they are. The pricing strategy is dynamically changing. In fact, it’s changing on a quarterly basis. If you recall, two or three years ago before the pandemic, the commodity side of the business used to have static pricing strategies, and it was rare to see a 4% to 5% increase.
Ayman: Today, we’re talking about extreme dynamism. We cannot foresee how prices will be impacted in the next quarter or the quarter after that. That, by itself, is extremely challenging for the food service industry. Whether we like it or not, operators will always suffer. That’s why my advice to the team and the organization is to continue consultations, to really explain these facts.
Ayman: I’m sure operators know this because they have their own challenges in managing costs. It’s about the ability to keep continuous consultations with the operator, to help them as much as we can in managing costs, as well as keeping serviceability high on the agenda to ensure that we’re not letting them down in such a challenging period.
Ayman: Securing the supply chain from the entire value chain—from producing the product all the way to having it in the operator’s kitchen—is something we are really focusing on during this very challenging period.
Ramez: Absolutely. You know, this is a very real threat.
Ramez: It’s a threat for everyone, and at the end of the day, the consumers are the ones paying for it. Prices are going up. Not to go too far off-topic, I have a one-year-old and a three-year-old, and the price of milk for my one-year-old—he has to get a special milk—used to be 90 AED for a 900-gram container. Then the pharmacy said, “Sir, now it’s 116 AED.” Do you think I said no? I said, “Okay, bring it on.” I have no choice—that’s milk for my son.
Ramez: I really think if there’s transparency, as you mentioned, about what’s happening with the price of oil, commodities, and even the availability of certain ingredients due to restrictions in certain parts of the world, which automatically creates a shrinkage in supply and a rise in prices, then this helps in understanding.
Ramez: I really believe sales professionals need a background in economics to understand the price-demand relationship so they can communicate more confidently with customers.
Ayman: I would add one more thing. I believe they say winning happens in the preparation phase, not in the execution phase.
Ayman: What I mean by that is if the salesperson shows up to a customer afraid of communicating bad news, that fear will be felt by the person on the other side and will make them react negatively. However, there’s a way of passing on bad news in a positive way.
Ayman: So the person feels more relieved. Any input on that?
Ramez: It’s a hard-core topic today. One of the most difficult tasks, to be honest, for any sales organization to manage, especially in B2B, is price increases. Yeah, it’s not easy at all. And trust me, if selling a product is difficult, try to upscale prices for existing operators.
Ayman: One of the things that, in my opinion, Ramez, can help the organization and the team succeed is the leader’s ability to instill confidence, to really explain the reasons with full integrity. It’s not about painting a positive picture and telling them, “Guys, you know what? We have an opportunity to increase prices, and we’re going to make a profit.”
Ayman: No. State the real facts: why we are increasing prices, the purpose behind it, what’s affecting us as an organization if we don’t increase prices. Most importantly, Ramez, explain what’s going to happen to our bottom line, to our business, even to your incentives and salaries. And God forbid, if we continue this way in the long run, guess what? Some of you in this meeting room might not be here in the future.
Ayman: That’s why, as a leader who really cares, we have the chance today to protect ourselves, protect our organization, and be extremely honest with operators. The reasons are X, Y, and Z. Today, globally, the world is not fine when it comes to economics, right? I mean, everybody’s talking about inflation. We just went through a severe pandemic.
Ayman: We have a shortage of labor. Suddenly, you see this whole cycle of consumption bouncing back, but you don’t have labor. So ingredients are scarce. You don’t have ingredients. It’s very tough to manage. We used to say we couldn’t manage a five-year plan. Today, if you manage a quarter with full visibility of the next one, you’re doing a great job.
Ayman: That’s why full visibility—back to your point, full visibility about the scenarios, the confidence you can bring to the team, the approach you take with the operator. If you approach the operator and say, “This is your new price, and sorry, we can’t do anything,” guess what? They’ll remember that, and it’s going to haunt you in the future.
Ayman: You probably won’t be able to do business with them again. That’s why it should come with empathy, the right explanation, the right approach. How are you going to communicate? What are the preparations that should be made prior to the approach? All of this should be smartly managed by the leader, setting a real example for the team to follow when approaching the operator.
Ayman: I’d also like to say something here. Sometimes, you used to talk about the art of reciprocity, right? Whatever you give, you’ve got to take back. But also, operators managed to enjoy extremely solid prices over the last two years, especially during the pandemic. One of the stories I really share with operators is this: “Despite your volume dropping drastically during the pandemic—less than 50%, sometimes as low as 40%—I was still giving you the same prices we agreed on because we really wanted to support you during the pandemic. But now that we as a business are impacted, and the business is flourishing again, it’s the right time for you to understand that we have to increase and nudge prices up because we really want to make money.”
Ayman: I believe this kind of relationship not only allows you to win in the short term but also allows you to invest in the long term. And who knows? Maybe costs will drop in the future, and you’ll come back to the operator with better prices. Customers will remember that.
Ramez: Ayman, thank you for sharing this.
Ramez: First, I love the integrity, the ethical approach, and the sincere way you shared your thoughts. I can only imagine you taking the same approach with your team. When your team understands the history of how you’ve helped clients in the past and reminds them of that, I think today people forget what you’ve done for them lately.
Ramez: People have short-term memories. What have you done for them when things were difficult? So I believe this is the time for really leveraging all the people skills, understanding the laws of influence, reciprocity, as you mentioned, and finding ways to create a proper approach where it’s a win for everyone.
Ramez: We want to still help you achieve your goals, but we can’t help you achieve your goals if we don’t achieve ours. So we are in this together. Really amazing insights there. Ayman, thank you so much for your time today. I believe this is just the beginning of many more segments to come, right?
Ayman: Right.
Ramez: That’s good. Absolutely. So until next time, sell more, sell faster, and profitably.
