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00:00:00:00 – 00:00:33:32
The speed of this team is determined by the speed of its leader. And today is all about sales leadership. And I have with me here a sales leader, a dear friend, one of the Hult alumni guys, Rajab Abu here. Yeah. How are you, Rajab? All good. Tom is. It’s always pleasure to see you and sit with you.

00:00:33:32 – 00:00:51:03
I mean, we had, a lot of, let’s say good, let’s say backgrounds and discussions during my tenure in health. And I mean, we become also friends and have a lot of connections with your fantastic, let’s say, sessions within, within the Academy of Sales. So it’s a pleasure to be here with you. Thank you.

00:00:51:03 – 00:01:14:48
My pleasure. As always. Mine. Today we have a focus on, you know, on, on, on, the concept of sales leadership. And within sales leadership, that is the topic of sales and and leadership. So it’s both of them coming. Coming together. Rise up. You’ve attended one of my sales sales management courses back at the university.

00:01:14:48 – 00:01:36:24
I’m going to just put you on the spot, by the way. Tell us a bit about your your current role. What are you doing at this moment so that people can. Yeah. Thanks, Rami. So, I am now the senior commercial director for George Fisher. It’s a leader of the for the industry, for the water flow solutions and sustainable energy solutions as well.

00:01:36:28 – 00:01:59:37
So I’m, I’m looking after the Middle East, North Africa region and international market water flow. Right. So let’s let’s go, whatever that is water, that is energy, whatever that is energy. So there is life. That’s so fantastic. So, so this is where we go back to asking you from attending my sales sales management course at Hult International Business School.

00:01:59:41 – 00:02:17:17
What were the biggest takeaways? For you as a as you now embark on on this or you’ve been on this journey now for a couple of years. Go ahead. I mean, for me, there is many, many good, topics. Every time I attend the decisions. But the one who which stood let’s see, almost is the value selling.

00:02:17:17 – 00:02:38:05
And, for me, since we are, I mean, as a Swiss company, we produce, let’s say, the most time the high end, products and solutions. And the value selling is something really crucial, let’s say, to, to focus on and to, let’s say, transfer this kind of knowledge and the thinking about it within, within, let’s say, the organization and the team.

00:02:38:09 – 00:03:07:31
I mean, that’s that’s my this is what I hear every single day. And, a lot of organizations today, what we’re seeing is that is fierce competition, the barriers to entry in different markets and technology have gone down drastically, which actually is creating an increased level of competition. And this increased level of competition is making it more difficult for organizations to really differentiate themselves and be able to sell this, this value.

00:03:07:35 – 00:03:33:33
And I hear a lot of sales leaders that basically you know, complain or talk about the biggest challenges that in this region, in this market, because there is there was traditionally more demand and supply. Sales professionals were very comfortable. And this market was very forgiving in the sense where even if I didn’t do the right process, the right steps or they’re still came in because customers really wanted what we have.

00:03:33:45 – 00:03:59:00
So especially if you had a Swiss type of a Swiss brand or a or Swiss technology that’s able to deliver very precise, let’s say, functions or very precise machinery, instruments and flows and things like that that is required to achieve certain technical, results. But today, the competition is fierce. So let’s look at the concept of value selling.

00:03:59:00 – 00:04:21:21
And, you know, without going I’m going to say without sharing company secrets, you know, but just being, you know, as transparent as you can in this in a sense that allow our listener to really understand and possibly see that, you know, the, the flow solutions that you sell or the, the you call them the transient, the the, say it again.

00:04:21:25 – 00:04:43:28
Yeah. It’s like flow solution from one point to one point for the water right from within the buildings. Right. So, so, so what’s so special about them? And and, how can we get to the point of actually selling, selling this value? Yeah. I mean, it’s very good question. And, we have a lot of, I mean, discussion about this topic, but it’s not only for the flow solutions.

00:04:43:28 – 00:05:03:13
Also you can implement in any way, anywhere, let’s say when we talk about value selling. And the key point is that the starting point will be how you understand the value of your customer first. That means what they need to. So a lot of time the customer does not know what they need. They tell you, I need this product, but they don’t know why.

00:05:03:15 – 00:05:24:40
How do you get them to give you so exactly. So what we do actually we add on top of it the, the services, which for example, I can tell you from our perspective is engineering is it’s, it’s the thing which where most of our customers is dealing with us because they know from engineering perspective, mainly for radiant cooling solutions, the you know, that we are the specialists on that specific matter.

00:05:24:40 – 00:05:48:16
So they always come to us and we help them to understand more what is value for them and how we can really tackle each and every, area of, development they need. So that’s one of the topic which we really emphasize on, and we see that it add a lot from both perspective that we understand. And if they don’t know where the value is, that we help them to know the place.

00:05:48:16 – 00:06:17:20
Right. You know, many, many years ago, there was something called a microwave. Nobody knew what a microwave, what a microwave was. Nobody knew they needed one. But today, try to take away a microwave. I just learned from Rajab what is radiant cooling. I had no idea what is radiant cooling. Right. And, and maybe I’m going to allow you to explain this concept of radiant cooling and maybe mention, if you can, maybe one success story that maybe exists in the market today.

00:06:17:21 – 00:06:42:24
Yeah, I think, radiant cooling in principle, is somehow to make the place more comfortable with zero decibel that you noise free. It’s high, much higher efficient than a normal, let’s say, cooling principles. It has a lot, a lot of, let’s say of, of benefits. But at the end of the day, we reach a place where it’s more comfortable to the people, especially in JC, that we need the cooling all the time.

00:06:42:28 – 00:07:04:02
And, you know, after the pandemic, also, it become more crucial to look into the hygiene kind of the systems. And radiant cooling can be the best system also for hygiene. So it’s a win win. So hygiene means there is no air filters. No there’s no that that just kind of cool. Yeah. Right. Exactly, exactly. So there’s a lot of as I said, Advil and also life time cycle.

00:07:04:02 – 00:07:26:14
It’s it’s a huge I mean, we are talking about 50 years. So it’s 50 years ago the, the the lifetime of the product. Yes. It’s almost maintenance free system as well. So it’s and it pays for itself. Absolutely. And then tell me about this thing. Putting it outdoors. Yeah. We can we can do also some principles also using also sustainable let’s say solution as a source.

00:07:26:18 – 00:07:46:10
Because at the end of the day, we, we try to make the places more comfortable for in and out. So that’s, the thing, we have a lot of references, like airports, like museums, like, I mean, offices, within the region running successfully for the last 5 to 10 years, already, which make our customers very, very happy on it.

00:07:46:14 – 00:08:11:27
You can see you have an engineering background or you, you, you, you know, a bit technical stuff, right? Absolutely. I don’t. Right. However, however, this is this is the the concept of value engineering or or the concept of, of selling the engineering, as a value add to the client. Right. So giving them understanding the dynamics, understanding flows, understanding certain technological aspects.

00:08:11:27 – 00:08:52:13
You can bring a solution that today, this might be at its infancy, at its nascent stages. Yet as more and more, let’s say users adopt this technology, it become it will become the standard down the line. But this doesn’t compete necessarily with existing air conditioning manufacturers. And, you know, it actually complements it is. Right. So so you want to say something about, the idea is that we can also add value in all areas because we, we can, as I mentioned, that the using the source of the cooling from also the existing, let’s say technologies of the air system or the water based systems, because we use water in the base instead

00:08:52:13 – 00:09:11:47
of air system. So it’s complement, of course, and it will help the total industry to focus on something which is really much, much better. And at the end of the day, it’s, it’s the best for sustainability, right? The best for sustainability. And this is becoming the buzzword that is, that everyone is talking about. Right. So it would seem right.

00:09:12:06 – 00:09:45:23
You mentioned to me that sometimes it’s important to know the customer needs, and from there you will start realizing, well, what is it that they value? Can you give me an example about maybe a customer need and how you were able to kind of tailor your, your value proposition towards that customer? Yeah. Of course. I mean, I can give you an example of, normally when we go to, to work with customers on radiant cooling as an example, so the customer doesn’t know exactly how it works because it’s a kind of it’s a new thing, technology.

00:09:45:27 – 00:10:26:32
So we go extra mile here and we provide the full engineering, let’s say kind of, arrangement with the customer from thermal imaging to take the location of the place. We have a special softwares in Germany where we implement everything and we go to the customers showing them the actions result ROI. So we have complete kind of, let’s say business study for the customer to understand both sides of technicalities at the same time, from commercial laws and from the life cycle and from all aspects from the CapEx and OpEx and this made our customers really happy for it, because, when we provide this, there is a part of this kind of arrangement we

00:10:26:32 – 00:10:47:19
used to do internally. But since this technology didn’t know much about it, we they cannot they don’t know what they don’t know exactly. So we, we do it on that respective. So that’s, that’s that value. So what’s coming to mind is this is a beautiful example of what we what is known as the challenger sale, where you’re, you’re teaching your customer about certain, technology.

00:10:47:23 – 00:11:14:02
You’re tailoring your approach to their particular needs. You’re showing them how. But with fit their environment, their operations. And then you’re taking control of the conversation because at the end, you’re showing them the potential ROI. You’re talking with the key stakeholders. So everybody will want something. So if there is a sustainability manager who is part of this equation, they want to get the green certifications.

00:11:14:02 – 00:11:36:40
And if you’re talking with the financial officer, he wants to get the financial potential benefits, maybe not on CapEx but on OpEx over a period of time. And of course, if you have the operation manager, he’s excited because low maintenance, higher uptime, minimal disruptions, and it’s a more sustainable flow for everyone.

00:11:36:40 – 00:12:08:49
So, it’s a beautiful example of actually how you bring this entire concept to life. Absolutely, absolutely. So now for a lot of the audiences today, we ignore the fact that some of your products and services and solutions, the customer might not be aware of them. Right. And actually, if the customer, you know, according to many of the research, we know today that most customers, because of the availability of information online, will research their own solution.

00:12:09:03 – 00:12:33:06
They’ll come up with their own, let’s say, requests based on their own, you know, analysis. And they do probably 60, 70% of the decision before they invite suppliers. Right. If this happens, then, when you meet these 3 or 4 suppliers, they probably have been vetted to have very similar solutions. So now it’s only a matter of squeezing the price.

00:12:33:10 – 00:12:54:38
Yet if you can be at the initial stages, if you can educate your customers on the value, on the future, on how this helps them achieve certain objectives. And if you’re talking with the right people, you really are differentiating your approach, and the process makes sense. Absolutely. Yes. I just want to emphasize on this one point.

00:12:54:42 – 00:13:15:28
This is also connected very much to the innovation and R&D for us. We invest a lot as a company to make sure that we always have new technologies and innovations within the industry that will help differentiate and give more value to the customers, because we hear what is going on and how we can improve.

00:13:15:28 – 00:13:49:40
And we have a lot of focus on that perspective. So thank you for this R&D. You know, investments, I think today, regardless of what business you’re in, there are companies that have a 1% budget on R&D, 2%, 5%, depending on how technologically advanced things are. And today we’re seeing in the world of AI, where if you’re not keeping up to date, technologies and businesses are actually becoming obsolete overnight.

00:13:49:40 – 00:14:11:40
So I love this idea of research. And you really are staying 1 or 2 steps ahead and you become a source of value to your customers. So now we spoke a little bit about the concept of a complex sale. And today in a complex sale, where you have multiple stakeholders, we were talking about maybe account plans, territory plans.

00:14:11:44 – 00:14:41:08
Just from your perspective, you know, when you are selling in a complex deal, how can you, let’s say, be more or less in control of their accounts? How can you ensure that—I don’t want to say be in control—but how can you make sure that you reduce risk for your own organization and maximize the output for the buying organization?

00:14:41:17 – 00:14:59:13
Yeah, actually, we work on this. I mean, with the customer, at the end of the day, it’s about trust. So we have a good relationship with all our customers. They know us very well for the high level of service we provide and the accurate information and development support we give.

00:14:59:17 – 00:15:15:15
But normally how we do it is we have different levels of interaction within each company. Because when you add value, you don’t just focus on the higher level or mid-level. You can also create a lot of value at the entry level. For example, we work with construction.

00:15:15:15 – 00:15:36:36
So the people on-site are also very important because they are the ones who touch and feel the product on-site, and we get a lot of good feedback from them. This two-way discussion helps us build trust at all levels, allowing us to learn, improve, and keep the communication flowing effectively.

00:15:36:36 – 00:15:56:27
And this is the cycle where we normally work. We keep this kind of communication running with each and every level. And what I’m getting from you is that your sales teams need to have a long-term perspective. Yeah, right. It’s not about getting a quick deal now. We all love to get a quick deal.

00:15:56:27 – 00:16:22:31
But, you know, in the type of selling that we do, you have to work up the need, and you need to be talking with the right individuals. Absolutely right to, to be able to get there. So you really have to be what I call a very patient farmer versus a hunter. I think it’s about farming, tending that ground, nurturing it, and really understanding the environment that you’re in.

00:16:22:31 – 00:16:58:10
Right. Absolutely. Wonderful. So, thank you for this. I believe, you know, I had once worked with a company that sells construction tools, right. And the exciting part is exactly as you were saying. The sales professional there was once called to a site to give a quotation on a certain set of tools. He put the quotation, and then the person who asked for the quotation called him back and said, “Come here. Look, I have a quotation from your competitor. Look at this. It’s half price. You guys are thieves!”

00:16:58:19 – 00:17:24:00
Now the poor salesman quickly looked at it and realized the quotation for the competitor’s product wasn’t the right specification. He was comparing a potato with an apple—completely incompatible. So, he told the client, “Well, I can give you something like this for much cheaper. But if you want this application, it’s not going to work.”

00:17:24:00 – 00:17:48:17
The client went ahead and brought in the cheaper tools anyway. Now, this sales professional did not leave the site because he already had his tools being used elsewhere on the site. He kept checking in with the foremen and laborers using the tools. After about a month, he went back and asked, “How’s everything going?” They said, “Oh, these new tools aren’t working. They’re creating problems.”

00:17:48:21 – 00:18:08:39
The salesman then went back to the client, not to say “I told you so,” but to offer solutions and service. This patience, combined with his persistence and understanding of the client’s needs, brought the client back to his product. Patience is always important in sales. Not every deal will close immediately, and that’s okay.

00:18:08:39 – 00:18:26:30
It’s about maintaining the relationship, sharing value, and believing in what you’re offering. Other opportunities will come, but trust and consistency matter most.

00:18:26:30 – 00:18:47:20
When you’re a professional, someone who knows their stuff, and truly understands the customer, people trust you. Even if they don’t buy right away, they remember your sincerity and knowledge.

00:18:47:20 – 00:19:06:17
This goes back to the idea that people buy from those they know, like, and trust. One of my mentors, Zig Ziglar, once said, “To get what I want, I have to help others get what they want first.” It’s about reciprocity. When you give value, it comes back to you.

00:19:06:21 – 00:19:30:38
Having the right values, mindset, and service-oriented approach is what differentiates successful sales professionals. Winning every deal isn’t the goal—building relationships and keeping doors open for the right time is key.

00:19:30:42 – 00:20:18:45
Today, some sales leaders have direct sales forces, while others rely on indirect sales through distributors. In your case, do you use both? From our side, we primarily work through distributors and engage in B2B business. This is a common strategy for multinationals operating outside their core territories.

00:20:18:45 – 00:21:06:48
However, choosing the right distributors is crucial. When I took over this region, we had multiple channel partners. It was important to bring them together and align them with shared goals. I don’t like calling them “distributors”; I prefer “partners.” We establish shared goals, clarify markets and solutions, and work hand-in-hand to achieve success.

00:21:06:48 – 00:21:26:23
Clarity is essential. We define markets, specify segments, and align our goals from the beginning. This ensures our teams and partners work as one cohesive unit.

00:21:26:24 – 00:22:05:36
We don’t just agree on a sales target at the beginning of the year and then part ways. Instead, we stay involved throughout the year, working closely with our partners to achieve our goals together.

00:22:05:36 – 00:22:27:12
We work hand-in-hand in the countries and regions, ensuring we grow together. This creates a sense of unity and alignment. Our teams, both internal and external, operate as one, which is essential for success when dealing with multiple partners.

00:22:27:16 – 00:22:48:34
We also ensure clarity by defining the roles, expertise, and market segments for each partner. Different partners have different strengths and capabilities, so we tailor our approach to match their talents. It’s a collaborative investment between us as the manufacturer and our partners in the region.

00:22:48:34 – 00:23:09:39
That strategic alignment is what makes partnerships successful. On the ground, we also address challenges such as skill development, knowledge sharing, and ensuring our partners represent our brand effectively.

00:23:09:39 – 00:23:29:20
Challenges are inevitable, but they’re also opportunities for growth. For example, when it comes to knowledge sharing, we provide frequent training sessions to ensure our partners are up to date with the latest product knowledge and market trends.

00:23:29:24 – 00:23:53:08
Our goal is for the distributor’s sales force to be as knowledgeable and capable as our own. This ensures consistency in messaging and expertise when dealing with customers.

00:23:53:08 – 00:24:12:45
Sometimes, partners are used to a different approach—such as minimal involvement from the manufacturer. However, we show them the value of our active support, working together as experts to deliver the same message and grow the market collaboratively.

00:24:12:45 – 00:24:32:30
We turn challenges into opportunities by creating action plans and development strategies. This structure amplifies the results of our partners, making them an extension of our team.

00:24:32:30 – 00:24:51:46
We don’t just hand them products and wish them luck. Instead, we invest resources to ensure they succeed, which ultimately benefits everyone involved.

00:24:51:46 – 00:25:17:45
For example, some partners may see our on-the-ground involvement as interference. However, we help them see it as added value, where we work together as a united team. This builds trust and creates a win-win situation.

00:25:17:45 – 00:25:40:47
Our approach is about long-term relationships. We have partners who’ve worked with us for over 30 years, and these partnerships have been built step by step, with mutual trust and shared success.

00:25:40:47 – 00:25:59:06
When selecting a partner, it’s crucial to have a clear focus on shared goals and ensure the partner has the talent and willingness to invest in the relationship. This isn’t just about selling products but about building a foundation for long-term growth.

00:25:59:08 – 00:26:33:19
We also align on the types of products, market segments, and resources required for success. This targeted approach ensures we work with partners who match our vision and capabilities.

00:26:33:19 – 00:27:00:26
For instance, in highly competitive markets, partners may handle multiple products. Salespeople tend to sell the easiest products first. However, high-value solutions often require deeper discussions and longer sales cycles. Aligning on this approach from the start is key.

00:27:00:30 – 00:27:36:27
We use a distributor targeting model to map out potential partners, ensuring they have the capacity, resources, and expertise needed for success. Long-term relationships are built on this foundation.

00:27:36:27 – 00:27:58:05
For example, we have distributors in Jordan and Lebanon who’ve been with us for over three decades. These relationships are based on trust and mutual growth, emphasizing the importance of selecting the right partner from the beginning.

00:27:58:05 – 00:28:19:01
It’s not just about sales targets; it’s about building a structure that supports sustainable growth. This approach ensures a win-win situation for both parties.

00:28:19:01 – 00:28:40:45
When managing partnerships, we also focus on aligning goals, clarifying roles, and maintaining open communication. This collaborative approach helps overcome challenges and drive success.

00:28:40:49 – 00:29:03:01
We focus on ensuring our partners are equipped with the knowledge and skills needed to succeed. This includes regular training, on-the-ground support, and a clear understanding of our shared objectives.

00:29:03:01 – 00:29:22:44
By working together, we create a unified team that delivers consistent results. This alignment is crucial for navigating complex markets and achieving long-term success.

00:29:22:44 – 00:29:52:14
As a sales leader, it’s important to continuously communicate your goals, vision, and values to your team. This keeps everyone aligned and motivated to achieve shared success.

00:29:52:14 – 00:30:12:39
For a sales professional to succeed, they need to believe in the value of what they’re selling. This belief drives their passion, commitment, and ability to connect with customers.

00:30:12:39 – 00:30:43:04
When we talk about sales, I mean sales by nature, you need to believe in what you are doing. And I think if you reach a point where the person knows, for example, when we talk about sustainability, growth, and radiant cooling, you are adding value not only to the user but also to the community, the environment, and even for the planet as a whole.

00:30:43:14 – 00:31:02:05
The idea is that we always do this kind of interaction with the sales team to make them believe in what they are focusing on and what they want to sell. It’s something that gives them personal value as well. So, it’s not just professional development; it’s personal development too.

00:31:02:05 – 00:31:20:17
They have the knowledge from the engineering perspective, the understanding of the actions they need to take, and the systems to follow. This makes a salesperson more successful because they see the purpose and value in what they are doing beyond just the sales target.

00:31:20:17 – 00:31:57:28
For example, long ago, I sold knives. You know the story—I used to sell knives door-to-door with Cutco Cutlery under Vector Marketing for a long time. And at first, you think, “How do I get excited about selling knives?” But it wasn’t just the knives—it was what those knives represented. They were tools that helped families, tools that made kitchens more efficient, tools that symbolized quality.

00:31:57:33 – 00:32:32:23
So, when I believed in the product and its purpose, it became easier to wake up every day and be motivated. This belief transferred to customers because they could sense my passion and conviction. The same applies to any sales professional. If they don’t truly believe in what they are selling, it becomes a challenge to succeed.

00:32:32:27 – 00:32:54:22
Unfortunately, many people treat sales as a temporary job. They see it as a stepping stone until they can “move on” to another role, like marketing. But if you’re starting in sales and don’t believe in it, you’re not truly giving it your best.

00:32:54:22 – 00:33:17:21
Today, sales is evolving rapidly with new technologies and solutions. There are countless opportunities to make a real impact on industries, communities, and even the planet. This is why finding people who share your goals and values is critical. When everyone is aligned, obstacles become easier to overcome.

00:33:17:21 – 00:33:41:38
As a sales leader, communicating your goals, vision, and values frequently is key to motivating your team and keeping them focused. For example, when I transitioned from sales training to leadership, I sat down with my team members individually and asked them, “Why are you here? Why do you want to continue this journey?”

00:33:41:42 – 00:34:12:00
One person told me, “I want to be part of turning this business around.” That simple statement became a rallying cry for the team. It wasn’t just about meeting targets; it was about creating something meaningful together.

00:34:12:00 – 00:34:37:20
And we did it. We turned things around, and many of those team members have since become leaders in their own right. It all started with clear communication, a shared vision, and the belief that we could achieve something greater together.

00:34:37:20 – 00:34:53:18
As sales leaders, we need to bring our people with us, go back to the basics, and focus on collaboration. Together, we can sell more, sell faster, and achieve lasting success.

00:34:53:18 – 00:35:17:29
And of course, achieving that success comes down to aligning your team around a shared vision and clear goals. It’s not just about the numbers; it’s about creating a sense of purpose that inspires everyone to go the extra mile.

00:35:17:29 – 00:35:37:20
As a sales leader, your role is to empower your team, ensure alignment, and consistently communicate the value and purpose behind what you’re collectively working to achieve. Together, you can sell more, sell faster, and profit.